1 2 3 >  Last ›
1 of 9
Religion in music.
Posted: 14 February 2012 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]
Bringer Of Torture
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  435
Joined  2012-02-07

I met a brother here the other day with the username “Phantom Antichrist” and from the beginning, I explained to him that I used the term. “brother” a lot. I told him that it was a Christian thing, not a gay thing. We talked back and forth by private messenger as we were disagreeing about Kreator’s live sets as he wanted some change and I liked the way they were. Then he said something that kinda shocked me but is very true. He said,“If everyone in a group agrees about everything, it will not be long before they start putting other people into gas chambers”. It’s true, too. Morbid, but real life is a bit morbid, isn’t it? Anyway… we had sort of become friends.

Then, later on, in his message, he said that he found it interesting and surprising that I am a Christian. He thinks it is very open-minded of me to be a big fan of Kreator (my favorite band for 24 years now) because their lyrical themes are far from the traditional Christian values with their songs about revolt and pro-abortion statements, etc. I had written a message to him explaining my way of thinking and he had the idea of me re-posting my message to him in a new thread. I apologize to all for the length of this message but here is my re-post:


I just wanted you to know that I am a Christian but I see music as an art. Painting is an art, and if someone painted a picture of Jesus being killed by demons, I see beyond just the picture that most others may see, even if the point is to be considered “satanic”. To me, religion and art are mutually exclusive. One has nothing to do with the other. I look as music as an art and just because there happens to be underlying or even blatant things against Christ in music, I see the art side which as I said before has no religion in it. Of course, bands like Deicide overdo it a lot but even Glen Benton will say that it isn’t a hate for Christ thing, it is more of a not believing in Christ thing for him. It just comes out much different in the lyrics. It is art, which is a story, that sells records and makes money. Even the book of Revelation is a scary book when it gets down to it. I look at music as that… just a story of fiction. It isn’t really that hard to understand, you just have to see that each song is a story, is art, and most songs have many different ways of looking at them. I don’t choose a way at looking at a story, I just enjoy the music and enjoy many bands that are thought of as “satanic”. It isn’t even that I have a dark side. It is simply just art to me, and I don’t take it past that. If I am at a Deicide show and the lyrics are “Hail Satan”, I sing along. It is all just art to me…. kinda like watching an old Friday the 13th movie and cheering on Jason. My love for Christ is absolute, my love for art, has many phases and can be taken many ways. To many, that makes me a non-Christian. To me, it makes me more artistic to see between the lines while crossing them if I need to. All Hail Kreator! Jesus knows where my heart lies. At the same time, I force Jesus on no one. I think that religion has changed throughout the years and I don’t see me being burnt in Hell even if I did scream “End my life, I must die, Satan! at a Deicide show or 2. I grew up in the birthplace of death metal, Orlando or central Florida, if you will. I’ve seen Death 15 times and I’ve seen Morbid Angel and Deicide more than a few times as well.

That was one hell of a tough question, brother, take care!

Well, that was the entire post to “Phantom Antichrist. I think that he just thought of it as “weird” for there to be people out there like myself. If there are any others out there like me, feel free to speak up. I’ll never try to push Christ on any one in any way. I look at my religion as an American religion of my own where TRUE to the book Christians do push Christ on everyone because it is written in the Bible that we Christians are supposed to bring people to Christ. Anyway, this was sort of written in a rush, and the separation of music and religion doesn’t seem like the craziest thing in the world and I really hope that when I am walking down the street in my Kreator t-shirt and my Doc Martens on that people don’t look at me and say “There is a satan worshiper. Since I was raised a Christian and have been into metal since my 12 year old days of listening to Iron Maiden over and over, I never really thought of satan in music until the subject was brought up to me. Last, but not least, this was “Phantom Antichrist’s idea. If this ends up being a popular thread, all “attaboys” go to him. I am simply a facilitator that was talked into re-posting a message. Take care, brothers… and sisters as well.

 Signature 

My only aim is to take many lives. The more, the better I feel!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 06:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Bringer Of Torture
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  384
Joined  2012-02-06

personally, i am not religious in any way shape or form. i often have a hard time understanding how this works for so many other people, but not myself. HOWEVER, i do respect each persons choice to believe what they think works best for them. i could go off on alot of small examples about how certain people or groups take their beliefs to the extreme and become harmful to society as a whole, but i think some of that is a bit obvious. i can honestly say that i havent met alot of people who hold the same beliefs as you WHILE being into extreme metal. i think it’s really cool that you can see things for what they really are, and separate the two. you just gained alot of respect from me for all the things you said, even if i dont share the same thoughts as you. i think this is a really interesting topic, and im curious what more people have to say.

 Signature 

*formerly “mustaine maniac” on the old forum*

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 07:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Bringer Of Torture
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  435
Joined  2012-02-07

I was afraid of all of the crap I’d take over posting this topic. That’s why I gave all of the credit to my “co-writer” To many heavy metal fans, satanism plays a part in the music but I doubt very much that Kreator has a satan worship ritual before they record. “Hey, Speesy, where did you put those black candles anyway. and where in the f*^k is my skull?” Just kidding of course But I thank you for being open-minded as I realize that liking extreme metal doesn’t have a place for most Christians. Really… thanks again. You may not be a Christian, but I truly believe there is a place for you when all is done. That place I’m speaking of isn’t filled with flames just because you listen to “extreme metal”. It’s funny, I’ve never used the term “extreme metal” but I guess it is appropriate. Thanks again, brother. Do you think that Jesus has a checklist and when it comes my turn to be judged he will say, “Oh… he listened to Kreator, give him the flames? Me either.

You are a pretty cool dude as everyone is that I have met here. I’m glad I came to the the world’s best metal band’s message board. Hail Kreator!

 Signature 

My only aim is to take many lives. The more, the better I feel!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 07:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Bringer Of Torture
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  384
Joined  2012-02-06

just a little side note for you: im a sister ;)

 Signature 

*formerly “mustaine maniac” on the old forum*

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 08:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Bringer Of Torture
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  435
Joined  2012-02-07

Oops… sorry about that. I appreciate that and promise not to make that mistake again. Thanks, sister. I call men, “brother” and women, “sister”. If this bothers you, message me and I’ll refer to you as whatever you’d like. My thanks to you for your open-mindedness, and send my apologies for my closed-mindedness. Take care, sister. Forgive me for being dumb as I really am bad with lingo and I am a computer idiot… but what exactly does dOT rOT Thrash mean? If you don’t mind telling me. Thanks again.

 Signature 

My only aim is to take many lives. The more, the better I feel!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 08:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Bringer Of Torture
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  492
Joined  2012-02-13

Thank God,who created me to be an atheist… :lol: Long message or not,I actually read the whole thing.If what you say is true,then it means that you are a tolerant christian,which is probably as rare as a white raven and cool as fuck.Glad you found us!

 Signature 

Quote of this week:“Metal is dead!” - Lars Ulrich

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 08:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Bringer Of Torture
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  435
Joined  2012-02-07

Right on, brother. A tolerant Christian, eh? In my opinion, all Christians should be tolerant. That may just be where the difference between myself and most Christians. I’m glad I found you, too. Talking to you is a lot more fun than talking about Justin Friggin Bieber on YouTube.

 Signature 

My only aim is to take many lives. The more, the better I feel!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 08:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Bringer Of Torture
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  492
Joined  2012-02-13

Actually…irritating the shit out of those brainless 12 years old fag-liebers can be fun! :cheese:

 Signature 

Quote of this week:“Metal is dead!” - Lars Ulrich

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 09:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Son Of Evil
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  515
Joined  2012-02-04

I do believe that,Satan is not only someone,people who do a thing against nature,I mean not only trees or oceans,I mean nature’s laws,life itself,I can explain it with some examples,God,whatever you call it as,created the life,or maybe life was created by itself it’s not important,and when early humans were living they used to walk to go somewhere or use animals such as horses,then mankind didn’t satisfied with what God or nature had given them and they just created things like cars and today it became to the modern cars which kills the nature day by day…This can be seen as a stupid example,but when you think it at large,you can get what I mean.Mankind is just trying to get the power,mankind is just want to be the God because non of them believes in God,in Islam,Christianity or anything,they run for money,they run for TV’s,they just want to live that life in a good way,in a way that is encouraged,non of the humans,especially the new generations know anything about the real life,living in the nature as a HUMAN,a real goddamn human as it was made by God or itself…
I’m just looking at history as older teach and show me,I just can see the unsatisfied people,they always try to make something,they always want more,they never satisfy and say thank God,the thing that we have to do just live in this damn world and die as a human,I or you actually don’t care after or before it,but it ain’t like that in life.Humans invented cars because they wanted to go far away because they never satisfied and never understood what the life is,they went for more food they went for more place,and when it sustained for a long time world became to this time.Just world wars,they are just and only for the more,more people to sell goods,more materials for make goods,more reason to get more money…And always and always the few on the rule lived in a great way,they fucked several women,they fucked several men,they killed millions of people,they ruled millions of people,they stole their fucking lives,yes I’m talking about governments,religions and things like them,they tried to classify people,they created an evil called society,they encouraged people for just their own desires,for just more money,more luxury,they created something called culture which is actually only a bullshit,there were not any need to create culture it was made already,they created this fake world and it’s illusions…
I’m gonna go to school tomorrow,and will learn lot of things at there and I’m gonna study do you know for what?A BETTER FUTURE!!Do you know what is A BETTER FUTURE?A comfortable life,yeah man a comfortable life with money,with a car,an apartment,with a woman,with children,with plasma TVs,with computers or just a centimeter thin super great phones…That is the life that I’m supposed to get…That is the aim of mankind now…This is just far beyond what we are…Apartments are just like cages,cars are just not needed,man I have just three or four friend on this world…This is the illusion of the new world,this is what created by mankind and my last words…THIS IS WHAT THE SATAN IS…Satan is the mankind himself,Satan is not so far away…
And now I do believe in God,or for me Nature and my only aim is to live like a real human with nature with dogs,with people whose aim just live in peace,love and nature…And it is not possible because if I don’t have money,I don’t have a place to stay in,because this world is not God’s anymore,this world is belong to governments,and this is the society who never asked me what I want to live,who even think didn’t of it…If you are a part of this society,you should know this you are just reading words from your fucking hostile,and I swear I will take my revenge,later or sooner…
Tomorrow,I’m gonna wake at 6 a.m. and go to the school for a better future with a blackened sky,with terror,with TVs and as A SLAVE!!
This is what I find in KREATOR,this is what Mental Slavery means,this is what Enemy of God means,this what Mille screams us!!
Yes my brother Grover,being a Christian and a real Kreator fan is the best thing what happens to you,and I know you will agree with me…
I know,whatever it’s name Allah,Lord,Christ or Muhammad,whatever you call it as,all of them actually telling us this,trying to show us the reality beyond this fake world…
And mankind uses such innocent things like them to classify people,to make slaves from them,slaves that live in a comfortable life!!
And I’m gonna go to school to a better future because even for Kreator,we need money,if I don’t have money,I’m not a member of Kreator,I’m not a member of Inner Circle,I’m never a real fan because I never go to a Kreator concert…Even Kreator is slave of this fake world sometimes,but I don’t blame them for it,because society made this to us,they stole and are still stealing our life from us!!
That is what think about religion!!

 Signature 

CIVILIZATION COLLAPSE

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 10:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Bringer Of Torture
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  435
Joined  2012-02-07

Well damn…that was a mouthful. I believe in Christ as our savior but I absolutely understand what you are saying. And…in a way… you have made Kreator’s lyrics and Mille himself out to be one of God’s soldiers in a way. He is telling us what is going on in the world and he is right. The world is a horrible place. Those are my thoughts when I listen to Kreator. Mille has been preaching it for years… even when he tells us all to scream HATE against the f-ing governments of the f-ing world. As I said, I will never push any of you to Christ but after listening to some of you talk, you guys are more like me than I’d ever known. I’m not saying you guys are Christians, I’m just saying that we are all music lovers first and satanists last if that would be the way you want to look at it. Music is art, and we all love the art with the brutality, the pure hatred, and the simple resistance and revolt that we all strive for. We just listen to music about it instead of doing the actual “acting out”. One day, the resistance and revolutions will start. We have seen it coming for years, through the music. Hopefully the good guys will win, whoever they are. You guys are great. Kreator fans are the best.

The stealing and corruption that you were speaking of… that is why I rarely attend church. Some churches may be legit, but many are scams. Who can you trust? I trust Mille.

 Signature 

My only aim is to take many lives. The more, the better I feel!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 10:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  302
Joined  2012-02-05

I wonder if metalheads listening to Stryper or Mortification are called christians just because of the music they’re listening to. It would make as much sense as calling someone enjoying a song written by Deicide a satanist…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 10:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Son Of Evil
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  515
Joined  2012-02-04
MPetrozzaIsGod - 14 February 2012 10:03 PM

One day, the resistance and revolutions will start. We have seen it coming for years, through the music. Hopefully the good guys will win, whoever they are. You guys are great. Kreator fans are the best.

The stealing and corruption that you were speaking of… that is why I rarely attend church. Some churches may be legit, but many are scams. Who can you trust? I trust Mille.

I don’t know it’s name or it’s leaders,maybe this is not like the others,I mean maybe there is no leader,but something is growing I can feel and in fact I’ve already known or maybe expected that there are some others near and behind me in this fight and now,knowing this and meeting with them is an honor for me!
It’s getting closer and even we can’t win,fighting for it is enough for me…I trust in Mille,too!
Hail the Metal Brothers and Sisters Unite!!!

 Signature 

CIVILIZATION COLLAPSE

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 10:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Son Of Evil
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  515
Joined  2012-02-04
Devastator - 14 February 2012 10:10 PM

I wonder if metalheads listening to Stryper or Mortification are called christians just because of the music they’re listening to. It would make as much sense as calling someone enjoying a song written by Deicide a satanist…

I thinks this is just about the names that are given to…What is satanist and what is Christian? I want to say that,we may be just talking about the same shit with different names…Names are not important,we should describe the notion or philosophy behind this names…Some can call Kreator as Enemy of God but I call them as soldier of God…I hope I’m not being annoying…

 Signature 

CIVILIZATION COLLAPSE

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 February 2012 10:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  302
Joined  2012-02-05

I don’t care if someone is religious or not. In my opinion it’s important what a person does and not what he/she believes in. Also I think that it would be great if everyone on this planet would be able to separate music from religion in that way that it doesn’t mean that I’m satanic because I listen to songs concerning such topics.

Which means:

Listening to Deicide doesn’t make me a satanist and being religious doesn’t make me a better person.
People can be evil even if they visit church once a week….

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 February 2012 01:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Bringer Of Torture
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  384
Joined  2012-02-06
MPetrozzaIsGod - 14 February 2012 08:07 PM

Oops… sorry about that. I appreciate that and promise not to make that mistake again.

whoa whoa whoa, you’re being WAY too hard on yourself. no worries from this end! you dont need to apologize :)

Devastator - 14 February 2012 10:50 PM

Which means:

Listening to Deicide doesn’t make me a satanist and being religious doesn’t make me a better person.
People can be evil even if they visit church once a week….

well said. the 2nd part is especially true.

i love this forum so much.

 

 Signature 

*formerly “mustaine maniac” on the old forum*

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 February 2012 01:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Bringer Of Torture
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  429
Joined  2012-02-11
MPetrozzaIsGod - 14 February 2012 06:40 PM

I just wanted you to know that I am a Christian but I see music as an art. Painting is an art, and if someone painted a picture of Jesus being killed by demons, I see beyond just the picture that most others may see, even if the point is to be considered “satanic”. To me, religion and art are mutually exclusive. One has nothing to do with the other. I look as music as an art and just because there happens to be underlying or even blatant things against Christ in music, I see the art side which as I said before has no religion in it. Of course, bands like Deicide overdo it a lot but even Glen Benton will say that it isn’t a hate for Christ thing, it is more of a not believing in Christ thing for him. It just comes out much different in the lyrics. It is art, which is a story, that sells records and makes money. Even the book of Revelation is a scary book when it gets down to it. I look at music as that… just a story of fiction. It isn’t really that hard to understand, you just have to see that each song is a story, is art, and most songs have many different ways of looking at them. I don’t choose a way at looking at a story, I just enjoy the music and enjoy many bands that are thought of as “satanic”. It isn’t even that I have a dark side. It is simply just art to me, and I don’t take it past that. If I am at a Deicide show and the lyrics are “Hail Satan”, I sing along. It is all just art to me…. kinda like watching an old Friday the 13th movie and cheering on Jason. My love for Christ is absolute, my love for art, has many phases and can be taken many ways. To many, that makes me a non-Christian. To me, it makes me more artistic to see between the lines while crossing them if I need to. All Hail Kreator! Jesus knows where my heart lies. At the same time, I force Jesus on no one. I think that religion has changed throughout the years and I don’t see me being burnt in Hell even if I did scream “End my life, I must die, Satan! at a Deicide show or 2. I grew up in the birthplace of death metal, Orlando or central Florida, if you will. I’ve seen Death 15 times and I’ve seen Morbid Angel and Deicide more than a few times as well.

That was one hell of a tough question, brother, take care!


Alright, I wrote to you in private that I thought you were right and wrong, so I better explain what I ment by that. I think you are very right in saying that to be a fan of a piece of art or a genre of some sort you don’t have to actually agree with the original intention of the person who created that piece of art. An obvious example when it comes to religion is religious art. The murals of Michelangelo might have been devinely inspired but the art itself can be enjoyed by people of any faith or lack of faith. In the same way it is possible for a christian to enjoy Black metal music.

Where I think you are wrong is when you say that art is seperated from religion because to me that is to say that a piece of art is seperated from the message that is contained. When John Lennon made the song “Give peace a chance” he were hoping to make a difference by adding a message to his song. It is of course possible to be a warmongler and still think “Give peace a chance” is a catchy tune, but that doesn’t mean that the song could be considered to be neutral.

You argue that a lot of people singing about Satan are not really satanist and I agreee about this too. Most of them are willing to admit that it is all about image or about creating an atmoshpere. However, it would be wrong to say that they are not satanist only because they are not members of the Church of Satan. If you look at the norwegian black metal scene in the 90’s there were not many who cared about Anton La Vey. Most of them probably thought he was a pussy. La Vey preached restraint and was not about doing acts of evil just for the sake of it. Most of all his teachings were about individualism and about not accepting being part of a flock. So, in the black metal scene there are people who are just using Satan as an image but there are also some freaks who consider themselves true satanists. In my eyes, most of these satanist are just in love with the thought of being evil and the aesthetics that goes with it. They might want to give you the impression that they believe in a personal Satan but I doubt that they actually do. I am not a fan of modern Black metal personally but I do love old school Running wild (yes, they used to be a Black metal band at one point), Venom, OZ and Mercyful fate.

Oh, and while we are talking about it. I really think this makes Tom Araya a hypocrite. Because there is no doubt that lyrics containing phrases like “Hail Satan!” and “God hates us all!” will be perceived as anti-christian (if not satanic) and as a catholic person it shows contempt for his own work if he treat it like nonsense. To me it seems that he don’t really care about what he is doing. His heart is in another place (catholicism) and he is just being a clown when he is up on stage singing things he pay no importance to. I am actually wondering if King gives him these lyrics to sing only to provoke him.

 

 Signature 

AGAINST RELIGION AND ALL NATIONS FLAGS!

Profile
 
 
   
 1 2 3 >  Last ›
1 of 9
 
‹‹ Vegan Black Metal Chef      Webtrash ››