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Holy cows in the setlist?
Posted: 12 February 2012 12:12 AM   [ Ignore ]
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One of the cooler setlists I experienced was the first time I saw Mötley Crüe. They started off with Shout at the Devil. It was soon followed by Girls, girls, girls, Kickstart my heart, Looks that kill and Wildside. At that point it started to get really interesting because they had already played all their most popular songs and I started thinking to myself: “What the hell are they doing? How are they going to follow this up?”. Towards the end they started playing some really interesting songs and I believe they played one of the bonus tracks from their compilation album as an encore.

If it is one thing that is a big turn-off for me it’s when the band come up on stage for the encore and I already know which songs they will have to play. Motörhead always finish their sets with Ace of Spades and Overkill for example and I can feel that they are just going through the motions at that point in the show.

Kreator seem to always finish their sets with the Flag of hate/Tormentor medley nowadays. Has these songs become sacred cows? Are these songs that have to be played at the end of every show?

How about doing it in reversed order or actually leave out one of these classics? Would it be possible? Would the audience storm the stage if they didn’t get to hear Flag of hate? Or is it possible that the band have put these restrictions upon themselves?

As a fan who has been to several Kreator shows I might be a bit selfish. I want to be surprised and hear some old and new songs played that I have never heard them play live before. But of course there will always be people at the show who see the band for the first time and possibly for the last time. But does this mean that bands have certain songs that they are obliged to play?

What do you people think? And Mille, Ventor, Sami & Christian (if you are reading this): What is your thoughts on how a setlist must be put together?

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Posted: 12 February 2012 05:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I personally love the “Flag of Hate/Tormentor” end to their shows. I know that no matter what happens, Mille is going to make me scream until I have no voice at the end of the show and I think that Flag of Hate is an “eternal” song. Most of Kreator’s songs are against the governments of the world and no matter what happens in the world, the lyrics are always fitting with what is going on in the world. It’s classic, it’s their own, and it fits the scene, mood, and the world no matter where or when it is played. It is everlasting and it is their trademark. If it makes any difference, at a recent show in Florida, Kreator closed out their show with “Flag of Hate”, “Pleasure to Kill”, and then “Tormentor”. If that isn’t different enough for you then I understand. I’m not saying that you are not a TRUE Kreator fan at all. I do, however, believe that their concert ending is epic and I hope that it NEVER changes. Keep your Flag of Hate risen high and proud. Mille Is God and Kreator is by far the best live metal band in existence.

Surprise is not ALWAYS a good thing, my brother.

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Posted: 12 February 2012 10:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I hope it never changes!!I think that is kind of ritual you know,Kreator concerts and rituals have some kind of regulation…
But I really want to hear Radical Resistance after Flag Of Hate,but I think it’s little bit dangerous!!

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Posted: 12 February 2012 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I think they have too many setlist staples, and as such the setlists are too predictable nowadays. When you go to see Kreator, you can pretty much expect to see

Tormentor/Flag of Hate
Pleasure to Kill
Terrible Certainty
Extreme Aggressions
Coma of Souls/People of the Lie (sometimes both)
Phobia
The Patriarch/Violent Revolution
Enemy of God

Hordes of Chaos may be added to that list as well, but we’ll have to wait and see what the new setlists bring. The set is then generally padded out with newer songs. Of course, they threw in some rarer songs in 2007 and for the 25th anniversary, but I think they could definitely drop Phobia, Extreme Aggressions, one of the Coma of Souls songs and maybe Terrible Certainty without too much bother. Of course, some fans will be disappointed, others will not. You can’t please everybody.

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Posted: 12 February 2012 01:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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WeGiveyouPain - 12 February 2012 10:27 AM

I hope it never changes!!I think that is kind of ritual you know,Kreator concerts and rituals have some kind of regulation…
But I really want to hear Radical Resistance after Flag Of Hate,but I think it’s little bit dangerous!!

You hope it never changes….and you want them to play Radical resistance as their last song? That is not only a change but an extremely unlikely change at that. This is a song I also wísh to hear live but to my knowledge they have not been playing it at all.

 

lordcatfish - 12 February 2012 12:26 PM

I think they have too many setlist staples, and as such the setlists are too predictable nowadays. When you go to see Kreator, you can pretty much expect to see

Tormentor/Flag of Hate
Pleasure to Kill
Terrible Certainty
Extreme Aggressions
Coma of Souls/People of the Lie (sometimes both)
Phobia
The Patriarch/Violent Revolution
Enemy of God

Hordes of Chaos may be added to that list as well, but we’ll have to wait and see what the new setlists bring. The set is then generally padded out with newer songs. Of course, they threw in some rarer songs in 2007 and for the 25th anniversary, but I think they could definitely drop Phobia, Extreme Aggressions, one of the Coma of Souls songs and maybe Terrible Certainty without too much bother. Of course, some fans will be disappointed, others will not. You can’t please everybody.

 

Speaking a staples: You forgot Betrayer. Personally, I would love to hear Pleasure to Kill every time I see Kreator since it is my favorite Kreator song; but I would accept it if they replaced it with something else. There is nothing wrong with having these “staples”. But I don’t think all of them need to be played at every single show.

I think Metallica handle this very well. They have a setlist with some songs that will be played on every show on that tour. But they also have several slots in the list with songs that are in rotation. That means that some popular songs like Ride the lightning and Four horsemen are played quite frequently, but not at every show. There are also a couple of slots where almost anything can appear. Songs that they maybe only play once or twice on a tour; like their Misfits-cover or some song from Reload. You can check these setlists out yourselves and compare them.

Not only does this make the setlist more precious, but it makes it more attractive to see the band several times on the same tour. Metallica played three shows in a row in Stockholms biggest arena and the setlist was different every time. And fans who knew this bought tickets to all three shows! If this would have been Kreator; I would have done the same thing, but Metallica is not one of my favorite bands.

The price for a setlist as varied as that of Metallica is that it is very demanding for rehearsals. And of course, the songs that are played the most will be the ones that sound the best technically. But I think it is a price worth paying since it makes it more interesting for the fans and also will sell more tickets when fans go to see the band more than once.

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Posted: 12 February 2012 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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There’ll always be people seeing Kreator for the first time who’d want to hear Tormentor/Flag of Hate,
Pleasure to Kill etc.

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Posted: 12 February 2012 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Phantom Antichrist - 12 February 2012 01:03 PM

I think Metallica handle this very well. They have a setlist with some songs that will be played on every show on that tour. But they also have several slots in the list with songs that are in rotation. That means that some popular songs like Ride the lightning and Four horsemen are played quite frequently, but not at every show. There are also a couple of slots where almost anything can appear. Songs that they maybe only play once or twice on a tour; like their Misfits-cover or some song from Reload. You can check these setlists out yourselves and compare them.

Not only does this make the setlist more precious, but it makes it more attractive to see the band several times on the same tour. Metallica played three shows in a row in Stockholms biggest arena and the setlist was different every time. And fans who knew this bought tickets to all three shows! If this would have been Kreator; I would have done the same thing, but Metallica is not one of my favorite bands.

The price for a setlist as varied as that of Metallica is that it is very demanding for rehearsals. And of course, the songs that are played the most will be the ones that sound the best technically. But I think it is a price worth paying since it makes it more interesting for the fans and also will sell more tickets when fans go to see the band more than once.

Yeah, Metallica is a good example. Even following their setlist updates on the website is quite fun as they leave clues about surprises in the setlist so people start guessing as to what it could be. I think they generally play for about 2 hrs - 2 hrs 30 mins though (18 songs a night), so they may have a lot more time to throw in a surprise or two.

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Posted: 12 February 2012 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Jack The Viking - 12 February 2012 04:18 PM

There’ll always be people seeing Kreator for the first time who’d want to hear Tormentor/Flag of Hate,
Pleasure to Kill etc.

Of course. But you can not always expect that these people always have these classics as their favorite songs. I agree that there need to be a lot of staples in the setlist for people to recognise the band as Kreator. There are examples of bands who only play new material and just include a couple of old songs and when that happens people feel betrayed.

But to show you what I mean I take the rotating setlist (Metallica-style) and give you three complete setlists. And you tell me if you feel that these three setlists works or not. Pretend that Kreator will play your hometown three nights in a row this summer and this is what the setlists will look like:


First night

1. Betrayer
2. Hordes of Chaos
3. Coma of souls
4. The Pestilence
5. Destroy what Destroys You
6. Warcurse
7. Impossible Brutality
8. Lost
9. Phantom Antichrist
10. Enemy of God
11. People of the Lie
12. Terrible Certainty
13. Extreme aggression
14. Pleasure to Kill
———————————————
15. Lams to the Slaughter (Raven cover)
16. Take their Lives
17. Tormentor


Second night

1. Betrayer
2. Hordes of Chaos
3. Terror Zone
4. Endless Pain
5. Destroy what Destroys You
6. Radical Resistance
7. Reconquering the Throne
8. Leave this World Behind
9. Phantom Antichrist
10. Enemy of God
11. People of the Lie
12. Phobia
13. Extreme aggression
14. Pleasure to Kill
———————————————
15. Some Pain will Last
16. Awakening of the Gods
17. Tormentor


Third night

1. Betrayer
2. Hordes of Chaos
3. Violent Revolution
4. Under the Guillotine
5. Destroy what Destroys You
6. Demon King
7. When the Sun Burns Red
8. Voices of the Dead
9. Phantom Antichrist
10. Enemy of God
11. People of the Lie
12. Flag of Hate
13. Extreme aggression
14. Pleasure to Kill
———————————————
15. Witching Hour (Venom cover)
16. Riot of Violence
17. Tormentor

*songs in rotation in red

 

As you can see; about half of the songs are the same every night and the rest of the songs consist mostly of other classics and new songs. The setlists look very different but yet they all have a good balance of classic songs and more interesting songs. I even think you could experiment even more with more odd songs and still have great setlists. Who would go to any of these shows and feel disappointed afterwards?

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Posted: 12 February 2012 09:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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pretending kreator would play belfast 3 nights is a stretch, believing they’ll ever play here would be a no go but still,

think the sets could be built up of definites and songs on rotation from:

endless pain def - flag of hate/tormentor rot - endless pain

pleasure to kill def - choir of the damned (intro), pleasure to kill rot - riot of violence, pestilence, under the guillotine

terrible certainty def - terrible certainty   rot - toxic trace

extreme aggression   def - betrayer rot - love us or hate hate us, extreme aggression

comma of souls   def - people of the lie rot - when the sun burns red

outcast   def - phobia

violent revolution def - voilent revolution   rot - reconquering the throne, all of the same blood

enemy of god def - enemy of god rot impossible brutality, voices of the dead

hordes of chaos def - hordes of chaos rot - destroy what destroys you


pretty predictable but i would expect them to play those definites and fill the rest of the set depending on time with the others.

it would be great if you were going to a few shows if the setlist was different but if you go to one show and your favourites were left out and played the following night you would be disappointed.


oh and i would enjoy any of those 17 song sets, it is krater after all

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Posted: 12 February 2012 09:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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lordcatfish - 12 February 2012 12:26 PM

I think they have too many setlist staples, and as such the setlists are too predictable nowadays. When you go to see Kreator, you can pretty much expect to see

Tormentor/Flag of Hate
Pleasure to Kill
Terrible Certainty
Extreme Aggressions
Coma of Souls/People of the Lie (sometimes both)
Phobia
The Patriarch/Violent Revolution
Enemy of God

Hordes of Chaos may be added to that list as well, but we’ll have to wait and see what the new setlists bring. The set is then generally padded out with newer songs. Of course, they threw in some rarer songs in 2007 and for the 25th anniversary, but I think they could definitely drop Phobia, Extreme Aggressions, one of the Coma of Souls songs and maybe Terrible Certainty without too much bother. Of course, some fans will be disappointed, others will not. You can’t please everybody.

Wow…I mentioned a setlist where they closed up with “Pleasure to Kill” jammed between “Flag” and “Tormentor” earlier. A lot of those staples were gone. I live in the US and saw them on their very last show of their “Hordes” North American tour. They were obviously tired as the setlist had only 12-15 songs but a lot of those “staples” you mentioned were not there at all. For instance, there was no “Coma”, no “Pariarch/Violent Revolution”, no “Terrible Certainty”. We did however get to hear “Warcurse and “Amok Run”, “Demon Prince” and “Hordes from the new album.

I’m not disagreeing with you, I think since I saw them on their last show before heading back to Europe, things may have been different, but the “staples you mentioned were replaced with other songs from “Enemy of God” and “Violent Revolution”. So for the most part, we heard a “newer” set of songs.

I think the reason you see the setlists as you do is because Kreator newbies, for the most part have never heard “Under the Guillotine” (one of my songs I want to see live nowadays. Anyway, I think that Kreator is simply trying to keep their “newer” fans happy. Whether it seems that way or not, there will always be more newbies than older fans like us and if they played a lot of the songs off of their first 3 albums, there wouldn’t be much room for the newer songs. I have seen taped Kreator shows where they played over 25 songs in their set and blew the crowds away with older stuff. Maybe it simply has to do with Sami. Sure, he’s been with the band for 12 years, but that is still 15 years of songs to learn if they wanted to play any of their songs “at will”.

I’ve been a Kreator freak since 1987. If Kreator dropped some of the songs that you mentioned, I surely would be “bothered”. No “Phobia”? Mille gets the crowd to scream along. No “Extreme Aggressions”? I could do without it but I could see an angry crowd here in the States”. “Extreme Aggressions was in a way, the reason why Americans like Kreator as much as they do. It was hard to get Kreator albums before Extreme Aggression saw success here. You had your say and you are entitled to it. No disrespect intended, brother. To me, Kreator is the best band alive. Also, Kreator is the best live band BY FAR. I just can’t see why anyone would want to mess with their live sets. I could see throwing in a few songs but honestly… dropping “Phobia” and it not being a “bother” seems absolutely crazy to me.

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Posted: 12 February 2012 09:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I don’t think Kreator have to be attractive.I listen an album from Kreator everyday,somedays two or three and when it comes to a live show,I don’t want any changes except Radical Resistance because its lyrics are really needed,when Petrozza will scream as Unite to Fight,after or before Flag of Hate,there will be a real amok run in that concert area.And also you’re talking about three nights,that is a crazy thing,I can’t even imagine that because if one day I see Kreator live,it will be a single night not much…

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Posted: 13 February 2012 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Kreator has been my favorite band since I saw them live in 1989 on the Extreme Aggression Tour. I have been die-hard Mille Petrozza and Kreator fans ever since. As you can see by my username, Kreator is very important even to my way of life. I don’t think that Kreator has ever released a song that I haven’t liked. The song that you keep mentioning, “Radical Resistance”, is a special favorite of mine as well. In my opinion, every song on “Hordes” is a complete masterpiece. You can tell that Kreator put the extra time in to make Hordes of Chaos an unmistakable masterpiece in my opinion. Even though it is their newest and most long time Kreator fans like their older stuff better, I think that their best album was Violent Revolution until Enemy of God was released. I think that “Enemy” was their best until “Hordes” was released. Since I live in the US and have seen many shows in Europe on tape and CD, I can tell you that our shows have far less people in the crowd and I want nothing more than to see Kreator in Europe. Kreator, though, does play their hearts out for us here in the States, they just don’t have the following that they have in Europe. I could definitely handle seeing Kreator 3 nights in a row here in the States or in Europe. It would be something that I would never forgive myself for missing.

Anyway… the sick thing about me is that since I am a plumber that has worked out of town for the last 18 years. Planning to see a Kreator show isn’t a very easy thing to do. So. my first REAL concert was a Kreator show here in Florida in 1990. My last real concert was a Kreator show here in Florida in 2010. So my first and last concerts have been Kreator shows. But… 3 days of Kreator, 4 days of Kreator, or a week of Kreator and my 38 year old ass would be down in the moshpit with all of you kids from beginning to end.

As your “signature says”  It’s getting closer, and June is. I can’t wait for “Phantom Antichrist” and like you, I thought Endorama was cool, too. Having Tilo Wolff on backing vocals was PERFECT!  Hey, you have been upgraded from newbie to jr. member! I’m trying like hell to bring YouTube’s Kreator lovers to this little forum of ours…I hope they show in force! I should be upgraded for the hundreds of people I’m trying to bring here. Haha.

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Posted: 13 February 2012 12:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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WeGiveyouPain - 12 February 2012 09:55 PM

I don’t think Kreator have to be attractive.I listen an album from Kreator everyday,somedays two or three and when it comes to a live show,I don’t want any changes except Radical Resistance because its lyrics are really needed,when Petrozza will scream as Unite to Fight,after or before Flag of Hate,there will be a real amok run in that concert area.And also you’re talking about three nights,that is a crazy thing,I can’t even imagine that because if one day I see Kreator live,it will be a single night not much…

I don’t think Kreator ever has played the same venue three nights in a row but that wasn’t really my point. As a dedicated fan many people will have the oppertunity to see the band more than once on a tour. Especially with all the summer festivals.

My point was to show that it is possible to have a varied setlist from one gig to another without leaving people feeling disappointed. Those setlists were only an example of how it could look since some people seemed to think that I was suggesting that Kreator only should be playing B-sides, demo songs and obscure bonus tracks.

 

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Posted: 13 February 2012 07:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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don’t think anyone is saying that, but depending on where you live, as i said previously i’m in belfast now, they can be a hard band to see. due to my current situation it is possible for me to take a few trips overseas for concerts, starring last year with the metal meeting in eindhoven. i’ll be at the metalfest in dessau with my first chance to see krater since i was a kid. in my case i would love to hear all the classics.

i do understand what you are getting at, megadeth are playing the same festival and i have seen them a number of times, i would them to drop either wake up dead or peace sells and play devils island from that album,

sometimes changing the order can help. remember metallica touring the uk twice for justice for all. they always opened with the first song from their latest album in those days, 2nd time round they started with creeping death and finished the set with blackened the surprise got a big reaction and great energy for the song.

whole thing hangs on how often you get to see the band really.

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Posted: 13 February 2012 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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scott mathieson - 13 February 2012 07:56 AM

don’t think anyone is saying that, but depending on where you live, as i said previously i’m in belfast now, they can be a hard band to see. due to my current situation it is possible for me to take a few trips overseas for concerts, starring last year with the metal meeting in eindhoven. i’ll be at the metalfest in dessau with my first chance to see krater since i was a kid. in my case i would love to hear all the classics.

i do understand what you are getting at, megadeth are playing the same festival and i have seen them a number of times, i would them to drop either wake up dead or peace sells and play devils island from that album,

sometimes changing the order can help. remember metallica touring the uk twice for justice for all. they always opened with the first song from their latest album in those days, 2nd time round they started with creeping death and finished the set with blackened the surprise got a big reaction and great energy for the song.

whole thing hangs on how often you get to see the band really.

 

But if you look at those three setlists I used as an example: Don’t you think each and every one of them have enough classic songs? And what is it that makes a song like Terrible Certainty a classic? How do you seperate classics from non-classics? Are all these staples really songs that every fan expect to hear?

When I saw Kreator the first time I didn’t know what to expect. I didn’t even know which songs were considered their classic songs. There are always personal favorites of course and some times these songs are considered classics. Very often they are not and are songs that never is played. That is why I think it is important to have a healthy dose of unexpected songs pumped into the setlist each tour. But with a rotating setlist you would still be pretty much garanteed to hear all the classics that you could wish for if you saw the band a couple of times.

If you are dedicated enough to post in a Kreator forum I think you might be able to save enough money and put away the time to actually make it to a few Kreator shows. And even if you only get to see Kreator one time in your life would you actually be crying yourself to sleep because you didn’t get to hear a certain “classic” while at the same time there would most likely also be 20 other personal favorites that they also didn’t play?

Even if some people might think it is wrong that Kreator would not play all of their classics every single show: Doesn’t that make these people selfish? If you’re a fan of the band you should be able to apprechiate the fact that you might actually be one of a selected few people who got to hear Agents of brutality instead of Enemy of God. Putting unconventional songs into rotation makes it so much sweeter to actually be at a show and be able to catch the band playing your personal favorite song and be able to rub it in the face of everyone who was not there. :-P

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Posted: 13 February 2012 07:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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I get what you mean,you are right, it’s really hard to satisfy everyone as you know,and I just want to see them live and actually don’t care what they play because I love every fucking song that are made by Kreator!

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