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Atheists - The Enemies of God
Posted: 26 February 2012 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]
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The Book recommendation thread developed into an atheist literature discussion so I am starting this thread instead. Here we can discuss things relating to atheism, scepticism, agnosticism, anti-theism and secular humanism as well as posting quotes, book recommendations or links to sites and video clips.

To start things off, here is a few videos from some of the more prominent atheists in recent years.


Here is a well argued piece from a speech by Sam Harris where he use islam as an example to show how to think about the christian version of hell.


A tribute video to the great freethinker Christopher Hitchens who passed away recently.


Ayaan Hirsi Ali speak about islam and integration

 

Michael Shermer talk about how we can decide what is true and what is not

 

Different clips with Richard Dawkins

 

I was asked about Hitchen’s book ‘God is not great’ which I recommended in the Book-thread. I had first got to know about Hitchens through a link on YouTube a few years ago when I was looking for videos with George H. Smith (who wrote ‘Atheism - A Case against God’). I decided early on that I didn’t like him. He seemed arrogant and he was also supporting the war in Iraq which I didn’t do. I decided that if I get any more books on the subject I would buy all other books first and save his books for last. However, I later saw some other clips which was very interesting and also quite witty and funny. I then got the news that he had cancer and probably would die from it and that’s when I thought: “Alright, the guy might be an asshole but let’s buy his books first instead to show him some support for the things he has done right”.

That’s when I got ‘God is not great’ which I thought was a great read. I even read it for my dad when he had had an heart attack and was waiting for the ambulance to come. We didn’t know he had actually had an heart attack but he was feeling very bad and could not relax while laying on the bed. I got a really strange feeling because it was like a mirror image of someone reading the bible for a dying person. He got to the hospital eventually because his body collapsed and his lungs filled with fluid. He told me that in the ambulance he remember thinking: “If I die now I am sure as hell not going to cry about it tomorrow!”.

He had instant surgery and survived. In the hospital he read the rest of the book as well as some other Humanist literature that I had brought him from Sweden (he lives in Spain now). He is definatly not the kind of person who would convert to christianity on the death bed. Much like my grandmother. She told the people at the hospital: “I’m an atheist so I don’t want to see any priests in my room here!”. Just like Hitchens she died from cancer caused by her smoking.

Now, my opinions of Hitchens has changed and I think he was the greatest and most brave person of our time. The man stayed true to what he believed in even when it cost him many, many friends. He was a person of the political left and he already had a lot of fans when he supported the war in Iraq. This ment that almost all his old fans felt totally alienated all of a sudden. Hitchens didn’t care. He thought it was the right thing to always be against totalitarianism in all it’s forms. He was extremely critical of Israel…..and at the same time even more critical of islam. He never took the easy route.

You have to admire a person who have the guts to do that because in the end there was no one who could agree with him in everything but he could always defend his views. He didn’t need to rely on backup from a political party or from his friends. He was a one man army.

I was sad to see him go in november but he still feel very much alive because I always read new things that he had written. There are always a new clip on YouTube that I had not seen before and he almost always have something new to say. I highly recommend his work for anyone who want to challenge themselves.

If you only watch one of his speeches you could do worse than to choose this one. It is not only about religion/atheism but it is extremely provocative and even made my pulse accelerate a couple of times and gave me a taste of blood in the mouth.

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Posted: 26 February 2012 11:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Not to get into an arguement,but do you really think that an atheist should consider himself or herself as “enemy of God”?

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Posted: 26 February 2012 11:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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The Clansman - 26 February 2012 11:31 PM

Not to get into an arguement,but do you really think that an atheist should consider himself or herself as “enemy of God”?


No. It was a bit of a joke since this is a Kreator-forum. I would consider an Anti-theist an enemy of god though. An atheist is a person who do not believe in god. An anti-theist is a person who would not even want a god. That is: An atheist could very well wish that there was a god. But an anti-theist would say: “I would be against god even if he exist.”

Many people think that atheists hate god though. Here is a clip where the Atheist Experience have to answer the naive question: “Why do you hate god?”.

 

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Posted: 27 February 2012 12:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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i really like this topic because you’ve presented alot of things which i will take a look at later which look really interesting.

my views on religion are always a bit confusing to me, mostly because i cant find the term or a name for what i sort of believe in. it has to do with the power of the stars, but its more on a personal rather than something i feel is in place for the entire world. maybe the best way to express it is by saying it’s something i WANT to believe in, but am not sure how it really all works. in my eyes, the stars dont take the shape or perform actions the way that humans see a “god”, so in a way it almost doesnt pertain to which religion i am or believe in. when it really comes down to it, i’m an agnostic atheist with this little side of the stars that i cant really figure out or put into words. im sure some people here will now tell me how stupid that is, or question things which is fine. i stated from the start that i dont really get it myself and cant even firmly define what the belief is.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 12:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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dOT rOT Thrash - 27 February 2012 12:08 AM

i really like this topic because you’ve presented alot of things which i will take a look at later which look really interesting.

my views on religion are always a bit confusing to me, mostly because i cant find the term or a name for what i sort of believe in. it has to do with the power of the stars, but its more on a personal level rather than something i feel is in place for the entire world. maybe the best way to express it is by saying it’s something i WANT to believe in, but am not sure how it really all works. in my eyes, the stars dont take the shape or perform actions the way that humans see a “god”, so in a way it almost doesnt pertain to which religion i am or believe in. when it really comes down to it, i’m an agnostic atheist with this little side of the stars that i cant really figure out or put into words. im sure some people here will now tell me how stupid that is, or question things which is fine. i stated from the start that i dont really get it myself and cant even firmly define what the belief is.

 

UGH! this is the 2nd time i’ve made it into a quote when i ment to edit it!

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Posted: 27 February 2012 01:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Phantom Antichrist - 26 February 2012 11:41 PM

No. It was a bit of a joke since this is a Kreator-forum.

Alright then,just checking…I guess science will find an answer to all our questions,just give it time.Until then,everyone can believe whatever they want,just don’t try to convert the others.That always lead to pointless conflicts.I’m not the enemy of “God”,I’m the enemy of people like this stupid piece of shit!

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Posted: 27 February 2012 02:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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The Clansman - 27 February 2012 01:32 AM
Phantom Antichrist - 26 February 2012 11:41 PM

No. It was a bit of a joke since this is a Kreator-forum.

Alright then,just checking…I guess science will find an answer to all our questions,just give it time.Until then,everyone can believe whatever they want,just don’t try to convert the others.That always lead to pointless conflicts.I’m not the enemy of “God”,I’m the enemy of people like this stupid piece of shit!


Every time a question is answered; a new question arise. Let me take an example:

When creationists debate evolutionists they say: “So, you claim that humans evolved from apes. But where is the missing link? There is a gap between these fossile findings, how do you explain that?”

When archeologist find the missing link the creationist goes: “Aha! Now there are two gaps!”


Religion used to claim to be the explanation for everything at a time when we knew very little. Again and again science has made new discoveries and religion has moved back their positions. But as long as there is something that is not yet explained; religion can claim to have the absolute answer. That is what’s called ‘the god of the gaps’. We might think that religion is going away but instead God will fill every gap that is created by the new questions that new discoveries lead to. Whenever a scientist has to admit “we don’t know that yet” the religious can burp “that proves that God did it”.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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So true…that’s what makes those deeply religious people so irritating! BTW…anybody’s here who can explain quantum physics? Lately I became really interested in the stuff but I don’t know too much about it.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 01:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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The Clansman - 27 February 2012 08:58 AM

So true…that’s what makes those deeply religious people so irritating! BTW…anybody’s here who can explain quantum physics? Lately I became really interested in the stuff but I don’t know too much about it.


No one can explain quantum physics. That’s why it fascinates people. Personally, I cannot even explain non-quantum physics.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 06:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I’m gonna die thanks to the exhausts gases or acid rains or maybe just some modified foods…Who knows?
This is because of the human race,world became here and I can see a problem that grows each fucking moment when I look at outside.I am gonna die because human race made such things which destroy the Planet Earth…At the same time which strengthen the World’s big guys. Now just tell me,WHO should I blame for it? I just run 18 years with great education,for what?I have never had a dog,which is fucking natural thing,I have seen a forest just 15 times not more.Now ask me why?Because I was in school,because I was in my apartment,because I was in front of the TV and computer.I’m still continueing to get educated.For what? Just one reason,for being a modern time human,with science,oh yeah with lot of information like yes you can lift a car if you use a stick which is in enough length and a rock,yes I know there is several systems in my body,from little to bigger…Yes I know there is a lot of galaxies in this goddamn universe.Yes I know man you make plastic from oil and oil is just fossil of dead animals and plants!
For what people?For being a slave for this human-made world,for spend my fucking life to buy a damn house and car and fuck my wife and see my children just after I come from work.This is the illusion.This is the human’s dying fake world.This not bring us a single good thing,this only enjoys the people who own the world with their money,who even give you a land to live on if you don’t live as they want!!
Now I ask you,who should I blame for this?God?Yes maybe God for not being here,yet we fucking don’t know even there is God or not!! The only guilty for this shit is human race that I can see!!
Go ahead people,continue to research the universe,support technology yes I don’t need to wash my clothes with my hand I actually didn’t need to use clothes a thousands years ago.
  People,you will find the answer one day,maybe…But you forget something,when you die,there is no damn single thing to gain.Just live that life,this is what you have,and don’t think what will happen when you die,because you already know it,WHEN YOU DIE YOU WILL ALREADY HAVE WASTED THIS LIFE!!

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Posted: 27 February 2012 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Just one of them Europe Afther The Rain

And,I tell you what,if I lived like a real human,I would never try to be your leader and oppress you to live your life as most do without asking…
Forcing them to support without asking
Imprisoned in factories for a lifetime
Reasons are becoming meaningless
Optimism leaves the bitter taste of hopelessness
Tomorrow I’ll be gone
We just forget who we are,what should we do!!LIVE!!

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Posted: 27 February 2012 08:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Phantom Antichrist - 27 February 2012 01:12 PM

No one can explain quantum physics. That’s why it fascinates people. Personally, I cannot even explain non-quantum physics.

Hahaha…plain physics aren’t that difficult to understand if you know the basic laws of physics.But whenever I tried to look at Wiki for things like,what is exactly or what’s the difference between loop quantum gravity and string theory,I didn’t understand shit of the descriptions.That’s too bad,because quantum physics is the science that one time hopefully gonna be able to explain how everything started,and hopefully it will finally shut those hocum-believing creationists’ mouths.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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WeGiveyouPain - 27 February 2012 06:53 PM

I’m gonna die thanks to the exhausts gases or acid rains or maybe just some modified foods…Who knows?
This is because of the human race,world became here and I can see a problem that grows each fucking moment when I look at outside.I am gonna die because human race made such things which destroy the Planet Earth…At the same time which strengthen the World’s big guys. Now just tell me,WHO should I blame for it? I just run 18 years with great education,for what?I have never had a dog,which is fucking natural thing,I have seen a forest just 15 times not more.Now ask me why?Because I was in school,because I was in my apartment,because I was in front of the TV and computer.I’m still continueing to get educated.For what? Just one reason,for being a modern time human,with science,oh yeah with lot of information like yes you can lift a car if you use a stick which is in enough length and a rock,yes I know there is several systems in my body,from little to bigger…Yes I know there is a lot of galaxies in this goddamn universe.Yes I know man you make plastic from oil and oil is just fossil of dead animals and plants!
For what people?For being a slave for this human-made world,for spend my fucking life to buy a damn house and car and fuck my wife and see my children just after I come from work.This is the illusion.This is the human’s dying fake world.This not bring us a single good thing,this only enjoys the people who own the world with their money,who even give you a land to live on if you don’t live as they want!!
Now I ask you,who should I blame for this?God?Yes maybe God for not being here,yet we fucking don’t know even there is God or not!! The only guilty for this shit is human race that I can see!!
Go ahead people,continue to research the universe,support technology yes I don’t need to wash my clothes with my hand I actually didn’t need to use clothes a thousands years ago.
  People,you will find the answer one day,maybe…But you forget something,when you die,there is no damn single thing to gain.Just live that life,this is what you have,and don’t think what will happen when you die,because you already know it,WHEN YOU DIE YOU WILL ALREADY HAVE WASTED THIS LIFE!!


You can blame everyone, including yourself, for how things are. When people get a choice they choose to buy the cheaper product that was made by women in Bangladesh working 20 hours shifts in a sweatshop. They choose to live their lives in a way that have a bad impact on the environment. They also choose to give birth to more people who all need space on the expense of the environment. And the growing population leads to more poverty and more resources being used up.

Science however can answer why these things happen. It can also give solutions to how we can live better lives and make more ecological products. If it wouldn’t be for science we would not even know what is causing the green house effect. But science can also let us know how to build atom bombs and how do make harmful chemicals. But science is just an excellent tool whatever you use it for. The problem is when people use science for bad things.

You can not save the world yourself but you can try to learn why things are fucked up and then you can try to make a change. Being educated has given you the oppertunity to ask these questions. The next step is to learn how turn things around. And even if we don’t live to see a perfect world it will give us motivation and meaning to our lives knowing that we are working to make things better.

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Posted: 28 February 2012 02:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Phantom Antichrist - 27 February 2012 10:07 PM
WeGiveyouPain - 27 February 2012 06:53 PM

I’m gonna die thanks to the exhausts gases or acid rains or maybe just some modified foods…Who knows?
This is because of the human race,world became here and I can see a problem that grows each fucking moment when I look at outside.I am gonna die because human race made such things which destroy the Planet Earth…At the same time which strengthen the World’s big guys. Now just tell me,WHO should I blame for it? I just run 18 years with great education,for what?I have never had a dog,which is fucking natural thing,I have seen a forest just 15 times not more.Now ask me why?Because I was in school,because I was in my apartment,because I was in front of the TV and computer.I’m still continueing to get educated.For what? Just one reason,for being a modern time human,with science,oh yeah with lot of information like yes you can lift a car if you use a stick which is in enough length and a rock,yes I know there is several systems in my body,from little to bigger…Yes I know there is a lot of galaxies in this goddamn universe.Yes I know man you make plastic from oil and oil is just fossil of dead animals and plants!
For what people?For being a slave for this human-made world,for spend my fucking life to buy a damn house and car and fuck my wife and see my children just after I come from work.This is the illusion.This is the human’s dying fake world.This not bring us a single good thing,this only enjoys the people who own the world with their money,who even give you a land to live on if you don’t live as they want!!
Now I ask you,who should I blame for this?God?Yes maybe God for not being here,yet we fucking don’t know even there is God or not!! The only guilty for this shit is human race that I can see!!
Go ahead people,continue to research the universe,support technology yes I don’t need to wash my clothes with my hand I actually didn’t need to use clothes a thousands years ago.
  People,you will find the answer one day,maybe…But you forget something,when you die,there is no damn single thing to gain.Just live that life,this is what you have,and don’t think what will happen when you die,because you already know it,WHEN YOU DIE YOU WILL ALREADY HAVE WASTED THIS LIFE!!


You can blame everyone, including yourself, for how things are. When people get a choice they choose to buy the cheaper product that was made by women in Bangladesh working 20 hours shifts in a sweatshop. They choose to live their lives in a way that have a bad impact on the environment. They also choose to give birth to more people who all need space on the expense of the environment. And the growing population leads to more poverty and more resources being used up.

Science however can answer why these things happen. It can also give solutions to how we can live better lives and make more ecological products. If it wouldn’t be for science we would not even know what is causing the green house effect. But science can also let us know how to build atom bombs and how do make harmful chemicals. But science is just an excellent tool whatever you use it for. The problem is when people use science for bad things.

You can not save the world yourself but you can try to learn why things are fucked up and then you can try to make a change. Being educated has given you the oppertunity to ask these questions. The next step is to learn how turn things around. And even if we don’t live to see a perfect world it will give us motivation and meaning to our lives knowing that we are working to make things better.

and to that i say “amen”  :)

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Posted: 28 February 2012 04:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I am just really sorry for the people who even don’t realize that,who even don’t aware of this fact and they just live their lives without knowing all this shit.Yes I may be educated and that may make me aware of these facts,but I am really sorry for others who even don’t ask themselves “Why I am here?” and “What am I doing?” .
And philosophy can find ways to live our lives in a better way also…I don’t have any anti-science thoughts and I don’t blame science for bad things just like you said,but if someone asked me I would prefer to destroy science from human history,because even if it has some good sides,it also has a lot of bad effect on the whole world and it mostly work for human-made damages and problems…Now,I guess it’s clear that it’s not about science,it’s about people and their usage of science,as you say Phantom Antichrist!!
By the way,this is exactly one of the best topics here!

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Posted: 28 February 2012 05:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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WeGiveyouPain - 28 February 2012 04:16 PM

I am just really sorry for the people who even don’t realize that,who even don’t aware of this fact and they just live their lives without knowing all this shit.Yes I may be educated and that may make me aware of these facts,but I am really sorry for others who even don’t ask themselves “Why I am here?” and “What am I doing?” .
And philosophy can find ways to live our lives in a better way also…I don’t have any anti-science thoughts and I don’t blame science for bad things just like you said,but if someone asked me I would prefer to destroy science from human history,because even if it has some good sides,it also has a lot of bad effect on the whole world and it mostly work for human-made damages and problems…Now,I guess it’s clear that it’s not about science,it’s about people and their usage of science,as you say Phantom Antichrist!!
By the way,this is exactly one of the best topics here!

But without science we don’t have electric guitars, Marshall stacks, record players and record equipment and Kreator would be playing unplugged. :-O

Also, we would not be able to share our thoughts right now.

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